"If you think Scripture is telling you what you want to hear, take a long, hard second look."
- The Ancient Mariner
Thursday, April 8, 2010
I've been steadily working my way through the Harry Potter books and I'm almost done...
Will you join me to talk about Book 6? Do not say anything about Book 7! I've spoiled enough for myself as it is.(Darned internet.) I wrote the following when I was halfway through:
I'm halfway through and here's my prediction: the half-blood prince is Voldemort. Come on! Who else could it be? Wake up Harry!Major Spoilers will follow, so don't keep reading unless you have read this book...
I love how he stands up to the minister of Magic. Rowling ends this scene powerfully - Harry turns his back on the minister and walks away. Harry's a man now and intimidated no more. I loved it!
Harry's also getting better about talking to people. In the first few books it was aggravating how Harry would know something but wouldn't tell anyone. Now he makes a real effort to tell McGonnegal, Lupin, and Dumbledore. He seems to have learned his lesson about keeping secrets. Too bad he doesn't feel like they take him seriously...
The rest of my thoughts are after the break...come with me...
I still love the books...but I have to feeling a little weary after this one. I don't know if it's because I've been working on these since the fall of last year, or if it was this book itself. I think I like "Order of the Phoenix" better...
The ending of "Half-Blood Prince" reminded me of the end of "The Empire Strikes Back". You know the final scene where Luke is standing with his fake hand over Leia's shoulder...looking forward to the next chapter. Luke is a man now. He grew up in this chapter, and now it's time to strike out on his own. The future looks ominous...but not without hope. He still has his friends after all... It was the darkest chapter of the series. I think all the same things can be said of the end of this HP book.
I confess I read somewhere when I was half-way through that Dumbledore dies. Aaaargh. I wish I hadn't. I confess that I have also seen the family tree on Rowling's website that shows who marries who, and who names their kids what. Because I saw that, much of what happens in this book wasn't much of a surprise.
How Severus Snape will be vindicated, I don't know, but I know that he will be. (I didn't figure out he was the Prince on my own. and my prediction was obviously wrong.)
If I hadn't seen that family tree, I probably wouldn't have caught it when Rowling writes that when Ginny sits next to him he catches a whiff that reminds him of the love potion in Slughorn's classroom. Brilliant hint of what was to come. You almost miss it.
What I enjoyed about this book was that Harry and Dumbledore finally get to hang out. I also enjoyed the romance of Ginny and Harry. Like in the previous book, I think Rowling handled the teenage romance brilliantly.
Another gift Rowling has is characterization. Some people in these books are clearly heroes, and others clearly villians. But then there are people like Slughorn and Snape that have mixtures of both. And speaking of Slughorn, I didn't like him. Ugh. It looks like Voldemort's curse of the D.A.D.A. job is still working.... I wonder who will get it next year.
I was glad that this book didn't have Voldemort show up in the end. That would have made the endings of these books a bit too predictable. I have noticed a pattern in how the books end. There tends to be a big conflict, followed by a quick journey, to the REALLY big conflict immediately after. She begins this pattern with "Prisoner of Azkaban". I can see how this pattern makes the last quarter of the books real page-turners.
I'm reserving judgment, but the Horcrux thing doesn't make total sense. If Voldemort's soul is in his body and survives death, then why does he need horcruxes? and how and when does he retrieve them if he's dead?
Oh, one more thought...McGonnegal rocks the cas-bah. To see her in that final battle was vindicating. She is a great character.
So what did you all think about:
The half-blood prince's textbook?
The death of Dumbledore?
Draco Malfoy - villian or dupe?
the romance of Ron and Hermoine?
Horcruxes?
The background of Tom Riddle? Did it ruin some of the mystery of his evil?
Anything and everything else?
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Comments on "Let's Talk About Harry Potter And the Half-Blood Prince":
2. ally
- 04/08/2010 1:08 pm CDT
while HBP is my favorite of the movies (and possibly my favorite of the books as well) I don't think it could actually become that until AFTER I'd read book 7... I doubt I finished HBP (that I can remember) feeling all that good about it... But when you know how it all works out, somehow all that dark and unknown becomes quite more beautiful... All I really remember from reading it the first time was how much I wanted to get on to book 7.
3. Linda Gilmore
- 04/08/2010 1:09 pm CDT
I'll come out of lurkerdom once again to comment on a HP book. :)
This is not my favorite of the series -- I think I said last time that The Order of the Phoenix is. But I noticed a pattern in the books, that the even numbered books are usually a let-down after the book before. They fell a little like marking time. Chamber of Secrets and Goblet of Fire, also not my favorites, though I liked them better after listening to them. And they do move the story along.
But that said, there are significant things in Half-Blood Prince. Horcruxes matter. They really do. I'll say no more about that. So does Kreacher.
I love at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince when Dumbledore goes to pick up Harry. I love how he takes the Dursleys to task about how they've treated Harry all these years, and how, though they don't think so, they've not done so well with Dudley, either.
I didn't see Snape as the Half-Blood Prince until the end. When I first read it, the end really shocked me. Though I was not a fan of Snape, there was always Dumbledore's complete trust in the man that seemed to mean there was more there than meets the eye. So I was shocked that he killed Dumbledore. (I think I can say, without spoiling things, to keep in mind how the events on the tower play out -- this is significant.)
I admire Rowling's ability to create ambiguous characters. I'm not real fond of Horace Slughorn, either, but I'm sure we've all known someone like him. And Snape's complexity makes him intriguing. It would be so easy to just hate him (the way I hate Dolores Umbridge, who is not ambivalent), but I can't quite do that.
I, too, thought Rowling handled teenage romance well -- especially capturing how girls can be completely mystifying to boys. (The scene after Cho and Harry kiss, where Hermione explains what Cho is feeling, and Ron's reaction, is priceless!)
I think it's natural to feel weary after this book. And, now that I think about it, Harry's weary too. At this point, he has lost everyone who he considered a parental figure. He feels alone and feels the weight of his destiny. I think it sets the tone for what comes next.
It's almost done! I'll be interested to see what you think of the whole thing!
4. Shrode
- 04/08/2010 2:07 pm CDT
Linda,
I saw somewhere else someone who had not yet read book 7, analyze the events in the tower in the light that Snape might yet be good... and it made sense. I think I see it now.
for example, Dumbledore saying "please" was not "please don't kill me", it was "please kill me like I told you to earlier." it's Parallel to Dumbledore making Harry promise that he would force dumbledore to drink the potion.
I will have lots of thoughts on this series as a whole when I finish...I'm saving that post...
5. WKen
- 04/08/2010 2:33 pm CDT
I forgot about that scene! Thanks, Linda!
When Dumbledore scolds the Dursleys and points out Dudley as an example of their profound failure as parents, it was UTTERLY BRILLIANT!
On the one hand, my wife and I have lamented that that scene wasn't included in the movie. On the other hand, watching Michael Gambon slaughter that scene could be heart-breaking.
6. Karl
- 04/08/2010 4:20 pm CDT
I'll try to comment later tonight or tomorrow. Lots of thoughts swirling around. HBP was maybe my favorite of the books - having a hard time not being argumentative about it being better than OOTP. For now, I'll link to Alan Jacobs' 2nd of 2 essays that he wrote afer Halfblood Prince but before Deathly Hallows. I'm pretty sure you'll like it:
http://www.booksandculture.com/articles/webexclusives/2007/June/070625.html?paging=off
7. Karl
- 04/08/2010 4:25 pm CDT
This is the first post- HBP piece by Jacobs, titled "Opportunity Costs: What does it profit a man to defeat the dark lord but lose his soul?"
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-opportunity-costs.html
In addition to a review of HBP, Jacobs also gives some of his thoughts on the popularity of the series as a whole. I'd be interested in any thoughts you have on Jacobs' comments in these 2 pieces.
9. Shrode
- 04/09/2010 8:35 am CDT
Manders, I liked it. I think it's interesting how it was a "minor mystery". At the end of her books, Rowling seems to resolve both major and minor mysteries. I like how all the clues are there, and the reader has an "aha" moment at the end like Paul Giamitti's inspector at the end of "the illusionist".
And yes, I'd go along with adorable. I actually saw on a different website people arguing about whether or not their relationship was creepy because of the age difference. (I guess Tonks might be in her late 20's and Lupin early 40's?)
I loved the debate between the two of them about whether or not it was possible, as though the feelings were a foregone conclusion. I've seen those kinds of discussions where the couple doesn't even seem to realize that they forgot to acknowledge their mutual love, it's just assumed. Adorable.
10. Damon
- 04/09/2010 9:43 am CDT
If I hadn't seen that family tree, I probably wouldn't have caught it when Rowling writes that when Ginny sits next to him he catches a whiff that reminds him of the love potion in Slughorn's classroom. Brilliant hint of what was to come. You almost miss it.
Can you be more specific here? I'm not sure who "him" is in this reference...
11. Shrode
- 04/09/2010 10:31 am CDT
Damon,
When Slughorn mixes up love potion, we are told that love potion smells differently to each person depending on what appeals to them.
So later that day, at lunch when Ginny sits next to Harry he catches a whiff of the same scent that he smelled in Slughorn's classroom when he walked in and love potion was brewing.
Get it? Even Harry himself didn't know yet, at least not consciously.
12. Karl
- 04/09/2010 11:06 am CDT
I tend to agree with Alan Jacobs, who writes in "Opportunity Costs" about the "draining away of delight" from the story that takes place in HBP. That sense of narrowing horizons, of drawing ever nearer to a dreadful task, really comes across strongly to me. Not that there aren't "delightful" touches in the book. But overall by the end of the book especially, you feel caught in the vortex, the pull toward something weighty and awful. Jacobs also writes about feeling weary ("rather hag-rid from the excitement and pain of it all") at the end of the book. I expect you have an additional sense of weariness that those of us who read the books as they were published didn't really experience. It is a long series, of long books. I'm sure that kind of has you feeling worn out, no matter how good the stories are. But imagine having to wait 2 to 3 years for the next one! It was 3 years between book 5 and book 6, and then another 2 years between book 6 and book 7! Torture!
I continued to like how she handled the romance. Even all the "snogging" between Ron and Lavender was done well. She puts it out there but again in a way that neither sneers at nor glorifies it. The reader senses the shallowness and immaturity of that kind of teen relationship, without Rowling having to moralize about it or sanitize it out of the story. Loved Hermione sending the flock of canaries pelting like bullets after Ron.
Because of the Scooby-Doo feel that the end of OOTP gave me and my fear that maybe Rowling would shy away from the depths of her story and their implications, I was actually relieved at the "darker" tone in Half Blood Prince. If Voldemort really is who and what she has set him up to be, it has to get a little bit dark, and our favorite characters can't make it through unscathed.
Snape taking the unbreakable vow really threw me for a loop when I first read the book.
I liked seeing the Malfoys taken down a few notches, with Lucius in Azkaban and out of favor for having botched things in the Dep't of Mysteries. I liked the new level of complexity that is brought to Draco's character as he realizes just how awful real evil like Voldemort's can be. He loves the sense of empowerment he gets from bullying and bigotry on a schoolboy level, and he likes the *idea* of serving a "dark lord." But now that his family isn't in the approved, inner circle and he finds himself a tool rather than a favored friend, you get the feeling that he would like to get out - if only he could. I still think he's driven more by self-interest than true remorse. But he's definitely more complex. I was shocked when he stomped Harry's nose. What an arrival at Hogwarts. JKR seems to make each arrival unique and eventful.
I thought the Slughorn character was well conceived. Not likeable - the smarmy but skilled networker par excellence plying his skills on teenagers of all people, someone whose only thoughts are for his own creature comforts and self-advancement, and who expects everyone else to be similarly motivated. But not evil in the same way as the death eaters, either. Still some good humor in him, and even some good intentions - as long as they don't put him out too much.
I loved the idea of horcruxes. It feels like the conceept kind of breaks down or has some gaps if scrutinized too closely, but it worked for me and added a great element to the book. As far as learning all that stuff about Voldemort's past I totally was into that. The trips into the pensieve with Dumbledore were the highlights of the book for me, trying to figure out where Dumbledore and JKR are trying to take Harry and the reader, piecing together clues that will tell us what makes Voldemort tick and how he might be defeated. It was chilling to see the psychopathic/sociopathic seeds of Voldemort even in the young Tom Riddle, and to see those seeds gradually grow. I liked Dumbledore's calm reception of Riddle/Voldemort and refusal to play his game, when V came to request the Defense Against Dark Arts teaching post.
The scene with Dumbledore drinking the potion and then Harry having to force-feed it to him, was harder for me to read than the actual scene of Dumbledore's death.
I am really bummed for you that you've had as much of the story "spoiled" as you have. A huge element of fun for me was wondering and debating with friends about Snape during the wait between books 6 and 7. Still, it sounds like you are way sketchy on the details so you probably still don't know nearly as much as you think you do. So stay away from the internet until you finish book 7! Except, I do hope you'll read the 2 essays I posted above from Alan Jacobs. No spoilers in them since they were written after book 6 but before book 7. I really enjoyed both his review of 6 (Opportunity Costs) and his anticipatory essay in preparation for Book 7 ("Waiting for Harry").
13. Karl
- 04/09/2010 11:26 am CDT
Oh, and I liked Fleur standing by Bill and proving to have more backbone and depth to her than Molly and Ginny Weasley had given her credit for. She's still a little vain ("I am good looking enough for both of us!") but she isn't as shallow as she might sometimes look and sound. The whole Molly-Fleur dynamic was an entertaining sidenote.
14. Shrode
- 04/09/2010 11:47 am CDT
Harry breaking up with Ginny was more than a little bit like Peter Parker breaking up with Mary Jane at the end of one of the Spiderman movies...because his enemies will use her against him.
15. Shrode
- 04/09/2010 12:06 pm CDT
Karl,
excellent thoughts and analysis.
I liked the articles from Alan Jacobs a great deal. And I totally agree with his assessment of the departure of joy. The ending of HFB, made me feel like he did. I do think his articles might be a bit spoilerish, because I have a suspicion that some of his predictions are right on, and I wish I hadn't read them. (About Snape and about Regulus Black for example.) And even about Harry choosing death.
Really good articles though. Excellent in fact. Thank you for sharing them.
16. Karl
- 04/09/2010 12:53 pm CDT
Hmmm, I'm sorry if reading any of that by Jacobs takes away from your enjoyment of Book 7. In the two years between books 6 and 7, Potter fans had many such conversations, and Jacobs wasn't the only astute person with an advanced degree to write or blog his speculations and confident predictions. Many of the predictions were quite convincing, and left one with an initial feeling of "yes, that must be exactly what happens!" That is, until you realize that they contradicted each other wildly. Because we were all in mutual ignorance those conversations enhanced my anticipation of Book 7 and enjoyment of reading it (to see who was closest to JKR's real plot), rather than diminished it. Yes, with 2 years in which to work people combed all through the first 6 books for clues (searching for anyone with the possible initials RAB being chief among such pursuits) but there were more false trails and fallacious theories than correct guesses - and until one read book 7 you couldn't be sure which were which. In the end Jacobs, while very astute, got as much or more wrong in those essays than he did right. So I think - hope - you can go into Book 7 (which I imagine you've probably already started) with a fairly clean slate and not trouble yourself too much about those essays.
If you like, I can forward to you a pre-book 7 email exchange with a friend that reflected on that essay and contained a bunch of my own questions, theories and speculations. Some of them tally with Jacobs' theories above, others differ. If anything, they might muddy the waters back up for you and re-create a bit of that sense of "everyone has a theory but which ones are right?" that we all had leading into the release of book 7.
17. Shrode
- 04/09/2010 1:17 pm CDT
Karl, no worries. Those were really good essays, and I'm glad I read them. I just hope he was wrong about Regulus Black. ;-)
If I made a list of all the surprises that had been ruined for me....it would probably make me sad. But not everything was spoiled.... I didn't see Cedrick Digory's end coming for example...
19. Karl
- 04/09/2010 2:14 pm CDT
One big item of speculation that pretty much everybody got wrong was what the significance of the title of book 7 might be. HP and the Deathly Hallows? What are the Deathly Hallows? That occupied a lot of brain space and energy, and I didn't see any guesses that really came close.
20. David
- 04/09/2010 2:42 pm CDT
Sounds to me like you're finally ready to start reading through "Harry Potter had me at Hello." Our book 7 predictions start around comment 315 and really start kicking it up a notch or two in comments 350ish-380ish. Those were my thoughts then after reading book 6 before book 7 came out.
21. Shrode
- 04/09/2010 3:18 pm CDT
Karl, I remember that back then before I read the books....
Since I've been reading them, and since I do sort of know the ending to book 7, I've decided it has to do with "holy death" at least on the same level that slytherin and snape reminds us of snakes.
David, I have tried to work my way through "harry potter had me at hello" now that I know what people are talking about. It's fun to watch the chronology as each book comes up. I had to stop because of spoilers though. I think I'll go back and look at the comment series you mention here.
22. Shrode
- 04/10/2010 7:36 am CDT
David and Karl,
Just read through "Harry Potter had me at hello" comments #300-500 something.
Now I feel like you guys are old friends! I hadn't read any of the HP books back then and ignored that comment thread. Now I feel like I know who you two guys are.
Karl, I saw where you introduced yourself and mentioned that you found us looking for a good discussion about Wild at Heart.
And David, I had to search for the post using "harry potter" and found you mentioned in another post as being especially active in the HP thread and there you were. I didn't quite realize how important you two were to the "HP Hello" thread when you started commenting under my posts here.
I'm honored to have both of you.
It was fun reading. Some of the speculation got a little ridiculous, debating whether or not Dumbledore was dead, arguing about whether Harry was a horcrux, even talking about whether Harry would die and come back. (something I know to be true because when book 7 came out I read some spoilerish reviews, not caring cuz I wasn't planning on reading HP at the time.)
Fun though.
I quit reading the comment thread after book 7 released and Quaid put out his first "Spoiler Warning".
It was fun watching you guys wait in anticipation.
I can imagine the agony you HP fans went through waiting years between books. Whereas, I've been able to start some literally minutes after finishing the previous one.
I am on the waiting list for Book 7, so I don't have it yet. I may have to wait a few weeks. Oh the agony.
One comment in the Harry Potter had me at Hello thread that interested me was from the lady that said that she had started them at age 11 when the first book came out and literally grew up reading them, and was now in her early 20's waiting for book 7. In my mind, that was always the audience Rowling was writing for. I think that as she was writing each book, and her characters grew up, that she was thinking about those kids that read the first one when it came out and are now teenagers.
I think it would have been cool to grow up with Harry. ;-)
And Quaid, you get extra points for your comment where you said that for most readers of the thread Harry had them at hello, but for others Harry just stopped them at hell. Or however you put it. Hilarious.
Leave a Comment:
Prior to starting this book, I had made the prediction that we would end the series with Harry being made the youngest professor of DADA in Hogwarts history. Snape, of course, would be absolutely fuming over this until Dumbledore announced his own retirement and named Snape as his successor.
When I finished the book, I realized that that prediction was a teensy, weensy bit off.
The half-blood prince, really, is almost a McGuffin. It doesn't really define the story, though we do come back to it a bit. There weren't enough hints toward it being Snape ... I found that plotline to be a let-down.
I agree, this reads like the second book of a trilogy. It needs to ... in order to have a climactic finish, we need to hit the low point. The world looks pretty bleak, but we have the last book to fix it.
Yes, McGonagal really proved her stuff in this book, more than most others.
Speaking of Professor McGonagal, her conversation with Neville Longbottom at the beginning of the story, when she praised him, was a great moment.
Draco ... At the beginning of this book, I took for granted that he was just as evil as his father, biding his time. I failed to see him as a fully-developed character. Considering how well Rowling made the rest of her characters, I shouldn't have fallen for that.
At the end of the book, I see him as a spoiled, rich wannabe. He talked tough because his father gave him bragging rights. Now, though, he's exposed as what he always really was -- a bully who can't handle a real fight. In his heart, he's as evil as anyone, but he doesn't have the nerve to match his talk.
If the Death Eaters want someone to write press releases, he's their guy. But he's no field operative.