Well, that certainly was a swerve about where or when Locke came from, but not the one I was expecting.

I am pretty amazed at where they went with this episode. After a year of strict scientific 'what happened, happened', we are apparently going into full supernatural good vs. evil mode.

So I guess the question moves to is evil Locke:
1) Satan (the ultimate evil)
2) The White Witch/Sauron (a lessor evil)
3) Esau (Jacob's brother)

I'm going with a blend of #2 and #3 - something akin to Loki in North mythology, and the brother of Jacob (Norse mythology of course highly influencing Lewis and Tolkien too).

I'm not sure I the writers are going to pull this off, but it sure is going to be interesting to see them try on all sorts of levels.

FYI - read elsewhere that Richard's answer to 'what lies at the foot of the statue?' was Latin, and translates to 'The one who will guard us'.

I think that Locke is a manifestation of Satan who influences humanity (in the form of Ben) to attempt to kill/successfully murder God (Jacob).

Jacob lives again (for realz) and conquers in Season 6.


One of the greatest episodes of television ever. Second greatest LOST finale behind the first season's. Romance, Action, Death, Life, Redemption, PERFECTION.

So, in 2004, flight 815 will land safely in LA.

But their destiny is on the island. So that's where they will all end up. They will end up together again.

It's going to be mindblowing.

(and I'm probably wrong about everything I just wrote, except the mindblowing part).

Lost: the best show on television, and in television history.

Finally - when did Jack become such a cold-blooded murderer? He was blowing away innocent Dharma initiative people right and left.

A few things I particularly liked in this episode:

At the start of the show, they show Jacob and Esau(?) sitting on the beach watching the Black Rock(?) sail in and part of the conversation goes something like this:
Esau: "They always come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same."
Jacob: "It only ends once. Any time before that, it's progress." Great writing there.

Also liked the speech they gave to Ben just before he knifes Jacob ('I did everything I was told for 35 years'). Definitely seemed to channeling the older brother of the prodigal son.

BTW, having seen Star Trek this weekend, when is the Star Trek post going up so we can go on and on about that one too?

anyone buy the Garden of Eden theories?

I'm willing to consider them.

Pretty awesome episode/finale!

I like the Esau theory/Guy at beginning because he said he would kill him one day, that's a good angle.

Here's another take: What about fake Locke being Charles Widmore, plastic surgery or something. I think he and his wife shared being the leader, or she was the leader. She may reappear as well....we don't know fully what happened to her.

I think they will be back on the Island. I think Faraday was wrong. It has to come into play that that Jacob came to visit all of those people: Locke, Jack, Sawyer and Kate at such young ages, Sayid, Hurley (was the coolest one), Jin and Sun, and even that Woman, Alana. I don't think we've seen the last of Jacob.


Whatever the case, it was a FANTASTIC Finale!!

What Miles suggested (that the nuclear weapon is what caused "the incident" all along) is what I have thought since Faraday came back... there is no way that they are going to undo everything that happened... so here is my prediction: they all flash back to 2007 as the nuclear blast is occurring... including juliet... there are way too many unanswered questions about what is happening in 2007 right now (with Jacob apparently dying and Locke's identity having been stolen) for the future to have actually been changed...

Think about it, Sayid said way back in season 2 that they had it concreted up like Chernobyl, which was a nuclear fallout... concreting up magnetic energy wouldn't do anything at all, concreting it up only makes sense if there was a nuclear event... not to mention, there are babies delivered on the island in the seventies... a nuclear fallout could cause the apparent barrenness that the others were experiencing in the present day...

so I don't think that Sayid or Juliet are dead because they were never shown to die... of course I'm still holding out hope from season 3 that charlie never died...

More reasons to bolster Brandon's take:

The writers like emphasizing and telegraphing through dialog. Case in point - repeating last week in the previouslies "Dead is dead, you don't get to come back from that", along with Richard's apparent confusion about Locke coming back from the dead. It totally telegraphed that that isn't Locke.

I group "Whatever Happened, Happened", Miles' statement from this week, and the Death of the Variable as telegraphs that they can't change the future (although I do think there's a good chance that they flash forward to 2007 again).

Another question: remember that Sun had "quite a journey" ahead of her? I always assumed that meant she would flash back to 1977. But if it doesn't I wonder what the big journey is?

I've long felt the island was the lost island of Atlantis, which also might be the Garden of Eden. With the introduction of apparently two supernatural beings residing there this week, that could easily be. However, even if the writer's directly say it is, I don't see how it is that important to the story anymore.

I think that once whatever happens with the detonation of the atomic bomb, the time travel is over. I also don't think they will have changed the past. My guess is also that all the 1977 Losties (including probably Juliet and Sayed) will jump to the island in 2007 having accomplished what they always did in causing the incident. Even more interesting might be they jump to present day 2010, and have to somehow fix all that went wrong on the island since Jacob was stabbed by Ben in 2007. But I think whether they end up in 2007 or 2010, the key is the Losties will keep all their memories of the plane crash, island, each other, etc. and not have it wiped out by time change.

Bill, in regards to Sun's 'long journey', if I'm right about the 2010, it might be the period of 2007-2010 she has to get through to be reunited with Jin. However, I would note that it's probably some kind of lie. Christian Shepherd was the one that told that to her, and just like disguising himself as Locke, it appears Christian Shepherd is dead, and all his appearences on the island have also been the evil 'Esau/Loki' disguised and manipulating people.

Which also raises questions about poor Claire who was last seen seemingly drugged out with disguised evil Christian Shepherd in the cabin.

As I said, I have reservations about this last season and wonder if the writers will really keep this on the rails. Hopefully the Christian themes will prevail, and this will end up in the veins of Narnia, Middle Earth, or even Harry Potter. Alternatively, it might veer off into the silly gnosticism of the Matrix.

I think "the eye" was Kate's - Juliet's are blue. And have you ever noticed how brilliantly blue the blue eyes are in this show?

I also think it's really interesting how so many of the people whose names begin with "J" end up being cast in some sort of saviour role - Juliet (she is so my hero, and while i know there's no way she could have survived, i really hope she does!!), John, Jack, James...

This episode was brilliant. I want to go watch it again... :)

(I guess my second reason is moot if "whatever happened doesn't happen")

I was reading Wiki about Jacob/Esau after a google.

mentions the Book of Jubilees, and says that Isaac in it makes Esau agree to never Kill jacob, however after his death Esau's sons come up with a scheme in which Mercenaries do so instead.

Ben = mercenary for Esau?

I think lots of folks are overthinking it. The religious allusions cataloged at Lostpedia are really grasps at straws. The show is too unwieldy and theologically naive to accommodate biblical details like that.

I gave up on hoping for theological sophistication from "Lost" back when Eko said Jesus had to be baptized for his sins.

I think lots of folks are overthinking it. The religious allusions cataloged at Lostpedia are really grasps at straws.

Thank you.

I agree with most people in that Whatever Happened, Happened - Faraday is wrong. They are flashed to the future (Juliet included?).

When Jacob, dying, says, "They're coming," his words have a dual meaning: Alpert, et al. are coming to his first aid, but the team of people he has chosen over the course of years to advance his ends are also showing up, at just the right time.

While I hope that Juliet is still alive, something about them entering the final season with just the original Losties is compelling, meaning that both she and Miles will be left out of everything, at some point.

What we do know is this:
Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, etc. have yet to achieve their destiny. It will be found in 2010. Whatever the specifics are, I believe that their destiny includes resurrecting Jacob's ends and maybe even Jacob, himself, whose death may not fall into "Dead is Dead" since he isn't exactly human. I also think that Ben will find redemption after realizing he was involved in the "killing" of good (God).

When they flash forward, I don't know that they'll end up at the Foot of the Statue. I suspect they'll be near the hatch's leftovers where they travelled from. But this can be rectified in one scene of one episode.

As far as the eye goes, I'm thinking it may be Ben's. I'm looking at a freeze frame on tv right now and I don't see why people think it belongs to a woman.

It will be a fun eight months, and I'm excited to see what, if anything, the show puts together as a meta-game/activity to bridge the gap.

I don't think that likening characters to God/Satan is overthinking anything

That's not what I meant.
I was talking about the long lists of biblical intricacies like "Jacob has brown eyes and Ishmael in the Bible has brown skin," or "Jacob offered his evil friend fish just like Jacob offered soup to Esau" or whatever. (I made those up, obviously, but all the theoretical links people are finding are way too much for the writers of this show, time-wise and sophistication-wise.)

I agree that there are obvious spiritual allusions in the show. They're not even implicit.

Jacob is good and that means that all along Ben was working for the good guy.

Well, in the story of the prodigal son, the older brother was working for his father all along too. But that didn't make him the good guy.