Well Philip, the Word does definitely admonish us to "let no unwholesome word come out of our mouth"......and to speak with grace and wisdom.

This is one of those classic "expect sinful people to sin" issues for me. I don't mind movies that are rated R for language because I know I'm not at "Fireproof" - I expect it, because its people doing what they always do.

I took my 15 year old son to see "Taking of Pelham 123" this past weekend, and we got in a discussion about this after the movie.

There were two teenagers in particular (who had very small parts fortunately) who literally went f-word every other word in the movie. My son goes to a public school. I asked him "is that accurate, or is that over the top?" He says its dead on accurate.

I asked him why he thinks we've raised him not to talk that way. He said it is so that we can "stand out in a good way".....good answer I thought.

I think we have a real opportunity to stand out in a good way on this issue - by not condemning, but rather just speaking differently.

Regarding "screw" - maybe I'm naive, because I know of the f-word synonym aspect of it, but I always thought it had another clear meaning - a screw is twisted and doesn't go in straight. To screw up (I always think when I say it) is to do something in a twisted, messed up way.

You know, interjections are words used to express excitement or emotion, and dad-burnit, some of us just need to express emotion verbally. There are people who don't need to say something, but most of us say something when we touch a hot skillet or experience a shock. The reason curse words are bad is they are actual curses, so damning someone or something is a profane curse. Likewise, using the Lord's name in disrespectful ways is blasphemous, talking about delicate subjects (primary s3x) is vulgar. All of these types are what we may call curse words.

I honestly think we should teach our children our own convictions about this and apply shovels of grace to everyone else. I don't like the word screw either, but many people I associate with use it, and I'm not going to call them down on it because watching other people's language is not going to make us love God more wholeheartedly.

To answer your question directly, it is within Christian liberty to use exclamations including those words. Yes, Philippians says we should avoid filthy talk and course jesting. Everyone should be aware of that and related verses, but I don't think it will help any of us to harp on it for other people. Let us lead in silence and meekness on this issue.

Two examples: my pastor says he's father was a man of few words, some of those words being the type we're talking about here. Raised in South Carolina, he was around 20 years old when he learned the term "damn yankee" was actually two words, and yet he was a godly man. He taught my pastor how to live in genuine faith, and that's the most important thing any father can teach.

My pastor also told a second-hand story about a seminary professor (I believe) who was having an intimate conversation with a young seminarian. The young man used "damn" several times to describe his hardships, and the professor responded saying he understood where he was coming from but he didn't have to break the third commandment to talk about it. The young man replied, "I know. I guess I just needed someone to say it."

Foul language is part of some of our environments and can be easy to slip into when feeling angry or brutally honest. Christians need to listen and talk with grace and mercy no matter who they are with and avoid assuming someone who says "dang" really means to say "damn" but isn't for the sake of current company. That's judging the heart beyond what we should.

In my opinion... (With little scholastic research) I don't think the etymology of the words "screwed" and "sucks" always (yes, some of the times it does) refer back to the carnal, vulgar source. For some, "sucks" could refer to "that really sucked the life out of _____" and "screwed" can mean "that guy got screwed to the wall".

Or maybe that is just my naive interpretation. But if so... and the source isn't the carnal, vulgar interpretation... is it bad then?

I think it largely comes down to intent, and not the actual words used. Which means I think that the 'substitute' words are just as bad as the 'real thing' if there intention is the same. If your intent is to curse, shock, insult, be prideful, be uncharitable towards someone, etc. than it doesn't matter what exact words you use.

Likewise, I think it is possible to voice the hardest 'curse' word without sinning if your intention was innocent. However, if you are going to use this defense, I suggest you triple check your true intentions since I think the likelihood of purely innocent use of such words is much rarer than you think.

That said, I also think that Christians who hear another person use language they disapprove of or are offended by need to be charitable as well. I think barring clear evidence to the contrary, you should assume the least objectionable explanation possible.

Interesting discussion. I think I'm with the consensus.

Personally, I've gone through a lot of thought and prayer, and read some useful articles (such as the "Guide to the Cussin' Christian" posted by iMonk a few years back), but am not an expert. Still, I can't help but think that avoiding cursewords is often a "Christian" way of ignoring the commandments to guard our speech. On the other hand, it is often an excellent way of reminding the Christian to watch his or her speech. Again, it comes down to intention.

In some social contexts, I think, the term "tough bastard" can be a compliment completely separated from any thoughts about the subject's parentage. On the other hand, the term "retard" can be (and almost always is) used in ways not consistent with Christian charity and a guarded tongue.

I'm not sure where words uttered out of context when one's stubbed a toe fall on the category; personally, I tend to make ridiculous but very angry incoherent sounds.

Intent is nice and everything Evan and Shrode, but kind of tough do discern.

I mean, come on.....who says "shoot" but then says "you know what I REALLY meant!".

Shoot means shoot usually......rarely if ever are we thinking of the purpose of the substitute words when exclaiming them.......but they certainly come across as a wise alternative choice in mixed company.

I don't think there is any place where the f-word in ear shot of someone else would not be sin.....I guess I don't understand that comment either.

I don't know Shrode, that moment of discernment from when hammer hits toe until the moment that words leave lips is pretty short.

I think whatever was already in the heart comes out in that instant.......we revert back to our training.

For the sake of my brother in Christ, I will try my hardest (and ask God to give me power to succeed) to refrain from any cursing. But I do want to say to those who find any and all cursing, even substitutes, offensive, that they have no idea what they're asking of us. To never use exclamatory language is an extremely difficult burden, and I might suggest an unnecessary one.

I personally have no issue whatsoever with strong language (other than taking God's glorious name in vain), except that it is vulgar and culturally unacceptable in most of our Christian society, and will unnecessarily offend many. But I think certain things do call for breaking out a "damned _____", or "who in the hell do you think you are" (Mark Driscoll). There is not really any other way to convey to people how important/ emphatic some things are.

My son gets onto me for “Christian Cussing”. I apologized the other day in the break room for it and got several giggles. The folks I work with can say some things. I don’t use some of the words on the list and don’t cuss. Ok I’ve said d**n straight to the shepherds at my church in a meeting, they had really angered me. I’m told that I made a disapproving face at myself after. I wonder if some didn’t want to laugh. I was rather angry so they may have been afraid. ;-}

I see no reason to cuss, I do say things like good grief and lizard tails

Along the lines of taking God's name in vain, I had a SS teacher (that I did not like very much - he was too much into psychobabble) go through the ten commandments. In his discussion of the Third Commandment, he started off saying that he believed everyone has said G-D. I was appalled and about to raise my hand to refute that very insulting statement when he went on to explain that it really wasn't only about the words but about how we lived our daily lives. We all have basically lived in ways that do not honor God, sometimes with an overt way of taking His name in vain - maybe the actual language or the lifestyle.

I never did grow to like this teacher but I was heartly convicted about my "arrogance" of not using any kind of bad language.

I am also in agreement with several of the above posts, but would like to add another twist. "Curses", which are actually not curses at all, are culturally recognized emotive sentiments.

Everyone knows that "F--k" is bad because we: 1) are taught at a young age that it is wrong, or 2) we see the events and reactions that surround the word. The word then becomes propogated. Therefore, another word could easily be substituted to mean the exact same thing. Take the inoccuous word "oats" for example. If someone stubs their toe and exclaims, "Oh, oats!", we come away with the same idea of that person's frustration.

This is why the other posters above are absolutely right that it is the intention of the heart that is most important. How can we avoid sinful expressions of frustrated emotions, much less than avoiding culturally accepted "foul words"?

I suppose we have to start by taking the Bible seriously. Jesus tells us to be anxious about nothing, and tells us that from the heart the mouth speaks. Paul tells us all things may be lawful but not all are beneficial, and he tells us that we should let no unwholesome speech come from our mouths. If we really trust Christ in each moment, I suppose we will be far less likely to let an "oh, bother" come from our lips much less than an "f-bomb."

Phil's not a legalist. He's one of the most grace-filled people I've ever known.

On a side note, I've heard that there are certain kinds of strokes a person can have that remove their ability to speak, except for exclamations.

This (along with dying on the toilet) is one of my biggest fears: that I will have that stroke and that the gateways between my heart and my mouth will be removed. What will come out?

I've heard that for many people with that condition, they just cuss all the time. I've also heard a story of a Christian man who's exclamations in that condition were "Hallelujah" and "Praise the Lord".

While I don't cuss, except for the too-often use of Cr-p, I did in my pre-Christ days and I know my mind is still full of the words I used to say. I hope that God will grant me grace to never be in a condition where what's in my mind pours out.

Thanks for those kind words, Bill. Wow. That's awesome. (And Bill I have that same fear. Every time I am put under anesthesia I fear the same thing, because I talk crazy when I'm coming out of it and have no memory of what I said. It scares me to death every single time, what might come out. Please God, save me from myself.)

Brandon, thank you also for the clarification.

(Not sure I agree with you on the "F" word thing, but that's between you and God :) Unless someone hears you, then I think Paul's passages on Christian Liberty apply. (See I Cor. 6:12, and I Cor. 8

And just to make this clear, I'm asking these questions more to check my own heart than to judge anyone else's words or mouth. (See my newest post on this subject at the top of this page.)

For fun and for my own benefit (and hopefully someone else's) I will rework I Corinthians 8 and see what we learn...

Now about bad language: we all know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God.

So then, about bad language: We know that a word by itself has no meaning unless it is given meaning, but even if there are words that are bad or good, only God determines which is which. From God all things came and for whom we live and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. God is the original word speaker, and therefore the creator of all words. Jesus is the original Word, and therefore the Lord of all words.

But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to bad words that when they hear or speak such thing they think of it as evil, and since their conscience is weak, their mouths and ears are defiled. But mere words do not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not speak at all, and no better if we do.

Be careful however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience hears you who have this knowledge using a swear word, won't he be emboldened to use swear words himself?

So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I speak causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never say anything remotely close to a swear word, so that I will not cause him to fall.

note: I worded the last sentence the way I did, because Paul says, "I will never eat meat again". He doesn't say, "I will never eat meat sacrificed to idols." His category is much broader, implying he doesn't want to be anywhere close so there is no danger of a weaker brother coming to a false conclusion. But on the other side, he doesn't say, "I'll never eat again." Either. One has to eat. So he's willing to become a vegetarian for the sake of someone else.

Likewise, it would seem to make sense to me for a Christian to voluntarily swear off words that may not be in and of themselves sinful for the sake of the weaker brethren.

So what do you all think? Was that a valid application of that passage? And Brandon, just like you weren't picking on me, I'm not picking on you dude. But you were my jumping off point. :) Thanks. (handshake)